Reactions and Comments: Season Four

[Drama]

You think every character must be in every episode? There are only FOUR main characters. Everyone else is less important and does NOT need to be around all the time.

[Deleted]

I read the season finale when it first came out and have been thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it. Although ultra-dramatic and very well-done, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Your Elders are as dense and as stupid as Charmed's, and I thought you were trying to right the wrongs (I hope you're not trying to write the wrongs--that's what Kern did)

This all came about due to a spell that brought Paige into the bunch. According to the Elders, (or is it the Elders? Was that them or the Angel of Destiny who came up with this cockamaney idea) just like the real series, Paige was not supposed to become part of the bunch until a Charmed One died. Since she became part of the group too soon, they now have the Power of Four, which is too powerful. The very, very ULTRA-obvious solution would be to simply bind Paige's powers and then use magic dust on everyone who knows what has happened so they forget that she exists until it's necessary--when one of the original Charmed Ones actually dies. Just like on Charmed, you've made her the substitute, not a part in her own right, which is what I thought had happened when the triquetra became the quadquetra, so that's obviously what should've happened. For her to be the only one who wasn't willing to die (when she should've very simply been willing to give up her powers and hence reconstitute the true original Power of Three) when it was her who made it necessary for someone to die just makes me dislike her more than I already do. Where's our quirky, goofy, quick-to-learn, quick-to-experiment, try-anything-once Paige? You have all the other characters down *so* well, but she's just so DULL while being super-powerful and always the one to save everyone with a version of her summoning power that our Paige never had--no wonder the Power of Four got to be too big!

Because now thanks to Paige's unwillingness to give up her powers until the time is right (when a Charmed One dies), Piper's going to be stuck with raising a magical kid who will walk all over her the way the kids at Magic School should've walked all over their teacher, mortal ex-whitelighter Leo in the finale. Unless the kid lost his powers, too. Although that might be a very good thing--no Twice-Blessed All-Powerful child to turn evil so no need for Chris to come back--Kern's worst plot idea except for Billie, since both took the focus away from the true stars--the sisters--is it fair for him to lose his heritage thanks to Paige's selfishness? Like everyone says, we know Piper doesn't really *want* to lose her powers; she just *thinks* she wants a normal life, and now thanks to Paige, they have lost Piper's power to explode things and freeze things as well as her fantastic skills with potions. Way to go, Paige! Way to go, Angel of Destiny who is as stupid as the shows' Elders!

You guys have done *such* a fantastic job with this series and I still applaud you for coming up with a fantastically written episode every week and am interested to see what you do next season. Hopefully it's a way to get Piper her powers back and put Paige back where she belongs--on the sidelines until she's needed. Either that or put the Power of Four back together the way it should've orginally been set up by taking away Paige's summoning power (which she shouldn't have anyway, since Prue still has her TK--Paige was supposed to get the power of the sister who died) and just let her have her whitelighter powers and her witch powers so the Power of Four won't be as powerful. That would make even more sense and make her less of a super-witch. Then if one of the other sisters *does*evenutally die, she could get their power "whitelighter-ized". I hope not, because I would love *that* Power of Four.

As for the Matthew debate, I totally ADORE Matt; I think he's the best thing that has happened to Prue since Andy died or since she got her 415 job. The idea of Prue with a male witch is brilliant! I truly hope that he's not gone for good. And I'm still going nuts trying to figure out who he's talking to on that !@#@! spirit board!

And I hope you do more with Cole and the Phoenix Matriarch, even if it means Bianca and probably means eventually Chris will come back (I was hoping you'd right THAT wrong and keep the little liar out of the series! Hopefully if he *does* show up, he's not a lying, whining, murdering smartass who thinks he knows everything and has to be the one who does everything!) That seems like such an interesting plotline and it just kinda went away. I like Cole best when there's still that bit of evil lurking inside him, always ready to come out, but he has to battle it back thanks to his love of Phoebe. And I like Phoebe best when she helps him fight it off and isn't blind, the way she was in S4 & S5. But I love the way that you've kept her our Phoebs, our baby, the one who of all the sisters most loves being a witch!

[Astral Echo]

Thanks Es, thanks alot. I really loved reading your comments though at times I think you disliked the storyline and the possible direction but you liked the writing. I tell you though, any mistakes we use, they will be done in a completly different way. One that will hopefully make you think, oh if they had done it like that then I wouldn't of complained. Glad your still around mate.

[Drama]

Well, I'm glad to see another Es review. I can always count on a detailed, fully honest opinion of the episode(s).

*deep breath*

It amazes why I like you so much since our Charmed opinions are very different, especially on certain topics *coughTCScough*. Okay. Wait. I don't agree with Dan and 4ever (donno about X) on that one too. *sighs* Great.

The solution to binding her powers and using memory dust seems like a cope out. Why even bring in the Power of Three just to do that? Plus, she's their sister. It's wrong to forget about her after all this time.

Ah, giving up powers. We had a talk about that in the planning stage. We were going to have Paige in that debate, but with some light from X, we decided not to. Paige is the youngest and newest to her powers. She's had a rough childhood and is finally getting her life together. She isn't ready to die. Etc, etc.

The baby and Piper - we've got plans for next season. We have thought about it. Plus, remember, Leo is magical, so it's not like the baby would be able to get away with things, anyways.

So glad you like Cole and Abby because it's fun. You can't really have me around and not have more Phoenix episodes, right? I mean, call it a spoiler if you will, but if you know me, then you should know that I do everything I can to talk people into having Phoenixes.

I assure you, we have plans in the making to figure out how this show will progress. Writing is wonderful. We're all in sync at this point. Plus, X's around to make sure we don't do something stupid.

Yay, Matt! I love how people like/love Matt. I guess we'll just have to see what happens with him and his spirit board.


Es, I love your reviews and your opinions. That's why I love you so much. We may disagree, but if everyone agreed, then it would be boring!

[Xenith]

Your Elders are as dense and as stupid as Charmed's, and I thought you were trying to right the wrongs (I hope you're not trying to write the wrongs--that's what Kern did)

The Elders were dicks back in S2 & S3, to make them suddenly nice caring guys when it came to the Charmed Ones would be a serious violation of the continuity established by Constance Burge.
Although I do agree that maybe we should have a slogan revision, maybe even a competition to make one...writing the wrongs has bugged me too, although I almost never think to mention it with all the other stuff going on.

The very, very ULTRA-obvious solution would be to simply bind Paige's powers and then use magic dust on everyone who knows what has happened so they forget that she exists until it's necessary--when one of the original Charmed Ones actually dies.

I'm pretty sure one of the Charmed Ones initially offered the solution of binding powers and was denied by the AoDST. At the point of Destiny Takes a Halliwell the Power of 4 was too strong to be broken by any simple power binding spell. Giving up a destiny runs deeper than that.

There was actually an scene we were tossing around about where the idea of giving up a destiny came from, and the consequences of taking such an action. But for time reasons it never made it into the episode. In the CRRS4 V-DVD you'll be able to see a rough version in the Deleted scenes section.

Also magic dusting everyone who ever seen the four sisters together? That's a lot of people... Not to mention what about the Underworld? You really think they could actually magic dust the whole Underworld so that a demon doesn't knock off an oblivious un-Charmed Paige? Like heck we're having something as contrived as the Cleaners that can wipe out the collective memory of the Underworld.

[Deleted]

LOL, you're all right. I guess I just don't like your Paige, the same way I don't like Chris and Billie because she just pops in and makes herself the most important person of the group with all of the saving with that goofy version of her summoning power, a power she should never have because one sister is supposed to have the power to move things with her mind, one sister is supposed to have the power to stop time, and the other is supposed to have premontions. For Paige to also have TK and a TK that's even better than Prue's (remember that Prue is my favorite sister) with her ability to use it to move stuff (Prue's power) while orbing people, (sister go here while I move the couch there so it can catch you) well if this was truly the way S4 had gone, I would've aborred her as much as I abhorred Chris and Billie! She seems like an extra that very simply doesn't belong, the way she did belong after one of the sisters was gone. Take away the power she shouldn't have had and Piper can still have hers and it will make a fantastic Power of Four! I'll admit that when I go back and reread everything, I skip past anything that includes the word "Paige". Without that, I truly adore this series. So, Drama, yes, I love the plotlines and love t the writing as long as it doesn't include Paige! Which is funny, because she became my favorite sister after Prue was gone. But Prue's not gone, so she simply shouldn't be there!

As for :

Your Elders are as dense and as stupid as Charmed's, and I thought you were trying to right the wrongs (I hope you're not trying to write the wrongs--that's what Kern did)

The Elders were dicks back in S2 & S3, to make them suddenly nice caring guys when it came to the Charmed Ones would be a serious violation of the continuity established by Constance Burge.

Well, first keep in mind that I don't consider S3 as Constance's. Although she was advising, most of that was actually Kern's and it shows. Never mentioning any wiccan holidays or wiccan rules; Piper getting a power that has absolutely nothing to do with stopping time, like the prophecy says, changing the explanation of her power so that she could have that explosion power; calling the elder whitelighters the Elders rather than just They or Them, Piper and Leo getting to marry because they save the Elders' asses. Actually showing the Elders. Oh, that's all so not S1 & S2 which are Constance's seasons. You can call S1-S3 your canon because you're starting your series with S4, but please don't insult Constance that way!

Next, They wanted the sisters and Leo to be who they were supposed to be--the protector of innocents. That's what their powers are for. That was supposed to be their Number One duty, their Number One priority over family, jobs, and anything else. It's called being noble, putting innocents in front of your own needs. If the sisters (Piper) didn't want it to be, then they truly should've all given up their powers when the Angel of Destiny gave them the chance, and they didn't.

So, no, They did not become dicks until Kern got a hold of Them in S7 when he broke all the rules with Them. Well, it actually starting in S6 when Kern showed Leo acting as unElderly as an Elder could possibly be and then had him actually murdering, something Constance's They would never do, especially not for revenge. Remember Morality Bites--Wrong Things Done for the Right Reasons Are Still WRONG. That's Constance's motto; not Kern's, who believes that Ends Justify the Means. But S7, actually making them more demonic than the demons was a whole heckova lot worse!

Before that, during Constance's S2, it was Piper thinking They were dicks because They didn't allow her to do what she wanted to do--have Leo be the normal boyfriend she wanted rather than the beautiful, wonderful angel he was. The only time she got upset at Them was when Leo had to use his powers to go somewhere else and save someone else rather than being with her and acting like a normal boyfriend. The selfish, self-centered bitch (thanks for changing that part of her personality, even tho you didn't show us why she changed. Without it, I can actually love her, the way I love all of your original Charmed Ones and their guys) wasn't satisfied until she got her little errand boy in S8. That was Piper's problem, not Theirs. Sounds like she'll do the same thing in yours, if Leo's going to be the one caught with watching the magical kid. He and the kid will be without their powers before the end of your series, I'm sure, either that or we'll have a whiney Piper throughout and I'm not sure which is worse!

[Xenith]

Never mentioning any wiccan holidays or wiccan rules

So first you want to say that she wasn't a part of S3, but then how can you saw that Kern never mentioned any wicca stuff...when Season 3's "All Halliwell's Eve" had the most wicca stuff in the entire series. Can't have it both ways
Also don't forget that Connie allowed a demon to be named Hecate. HECATE! So that's a pretty good sign that for all her bluster upon departing she really didn't care too much about keeping the show true to any kind of real wicca tradition or heritage.

Piper getting a power that has absolutely nothing to do with stopping time

Yeah combustion (no offense to our Comb ) was Kern's fault. I never really saw much wrong with trying to apply some science to the supernatural, Melinda Warren was 1700s woman with the power to see the future. She had the power to move things by waving at them, stop moving things, and see the future. Witches had no direct interactions with whitelighters in MW's time, their only interaction with the Elders was 1 sided communication in the form of prayers for help.
So of course any kind of ideas such as molecules and forces would be beyond her ability to comprehend the true mechanics of how something functioned. Just as if you took a flashlight back to the 1700s you'd probably be accused of using magic to make it work...

CB also gave Phoebe powers that didn't fit within the prophecy. Again I find it hard to believe that she had no say in the first episode of the season, she was very vocal about her opposition to bringing in Cole, but I can't recall seeing any interview where she mentioned a word about being opposed to Phoebe's levitation. And from working CRR, and hearing interview from writers for other actual shows and even comics I can tell you that I don't think that new powers are really the kind of thing that is just suddenly decided, there is a lot of planning involved and discussion as any new power added to the mix (either to an existing character,or in the form of a new character) effects every plot from that point forward.
Even if you want to argue about Connie's involvement with Levitation in S3, there is another example of a sister developing a power not related to the prophecy in S2. No not Prue's AP, as that can be seen as moving an object (herself) with her mind. I'm talking about Morality Bites Phoebe and the way she killed Cal. Either she used an electrokinesis (AND Levitation) or it was empathy to channel powers. Neither of which are powers that could fall under the "see the future" part of the prophecy.

Calling the elder whitelighters the Elders rather than just They or Them

Is the name Elders really much worse than the Founders? So they were never really just "They" & "Them".

Before that, during Constance's S2, it was Piper thinking They were dicks because They didn't allow her to do what she wanted to do--have Leo be the normal boyfriend she wanted rather than the beautiful, wonderful angel he was. The only time she got upset at Them was when Leo had to use his powers to go somewhere else and save someone else rather than being with her and acting like a normal boyfriend.

Umm have you completely forgotten Awakened?!? How can you possibly say that their wanting Piper to die (which would have as far as they knew ended the greatest force for good of the Power of Three), and forbidding Leo from interfering and punishing him when he did was not at all the same kind of dickish as in S3 and CRRS4?
Really isn't that case of Awakened an shining example that the Elders have always (as long as we were allowed to know of them) felt to an extent that the Ends Justifies the Means? The pursuit of ideals such as the "Greater Good" and "Balance" above all else?

[Deleted]

OK, I'll agree with you on all of that and admit I was wrong. I can do that when I'm given proof and you most definitely did.

But I noticed you didn't say a word about Paige. I think deep inside you agree with me. You agree that she's as much of a "take away from the true stars" as Chris and Billie. IF you truly wanted to right the wrongs of Charmed, you would've allowed the original Charmed Ones to stand and just leave Paige out of it. Your series would truly show how Charmed should've gone if you'd just left her out of it! All of your plotlines that don't include her are SOOO good and SOOOO original, while hers are just boring (as dull as the character you've given her, nothing at all like the Paige of Charmed who became my favorite sister by S8 when Phoebe had turned to Freebie/PhoeME and Piper had turned to Miss Whinelot.) I truly wish that once Piper said she'd give up her power, they all (including Paige) should've agreed that Paige should be the one to give up hers, so that they could keep Piper's powers--they didn't need Paige's, since they already had Prue's and Leo's, so Piper could've kept her powers and we'd have the original Power of Three back!

Here's hoping that's what happens in your Season Five premiere--Piper realizing that she *does* want her powers back when all the demons go after her, the way they should've gone after Victor and Glen and Henry, and when she realizes how much she misses using her powers when she needs them--and Paige accidentally gets killed, so the original Power of Three can be reconstituted.

If Shannen and Alyssa had both stayed, there would've been no need for Rose. And with the way you're writing Phoebe, I'm glad Alyssa (the one I wish had left--remember that Prue is my favorite sister) is staying, too. So repeat. No need for Rose!

[Xenith]

But I noticed you didn't say a word about Paige. I think deep inside you agree with me. You agree that she's as much of a "take away from the true stars" as Chris and Billie. IF you truly wanted to right the wrongs of Charmed, you would've allowed the original Charmed Ones to stand and just leave Paige out of it. Your series would truly show how Charmed should've gone if you'd just left her out of it! All of your plotlines that don't include her are SOOO good and SOOOO original, while hers are just boring (as dull as the character you've given her.) I truly wish she had been the one who had agreed to die so Piper could've kept her powers and we'd have the original Power of Three back! If Shannen and Alyssa had both stayed, there would've been no need for Rose. And with the way you're writing Phoebe, I'm glad Alyssa (the one I wish had left--remember that Prue is my favorite sister) is staying, too. So repeat. No need for Rose!

I didn't say anything about Paige, because that's strictly an matter of opinion, it's hard to prove or disprove something such as a character being dull, so I didn't really see the point in trying to argue the point. It's the same reason why I don't try to argue with Domino about Matt.

For the record I don't think Paige is dull or unneccessary. Although I do have to admit that there weren't a lot of chances in CRRS4 for her personality to really shine through in between all the hustle of just trying to get the Po4 setup, Matt issues, Source, ect, with Paige's main plot being the triangle with Glennry. CRRS5 we do have some more plans for her characters development that can hopefully establish her true character a little more.

[Brightside]

I'm up to 4.05 now. I have to say that the thing that gets me the most is the feel of the show. It is definitely Charmed. There is no mistaking the action, comedy, drama. All if it is Charmed. I loved the ending to the four part premier. It was nice to see Paige's family show up. I loved the interaction between them and the Halliwells. Also, brilliant idea to have Melinda come back and explain about Paige. Something that kept bothering me is how you guys would explain a possible Power of Four. I'm glad you found a way and not just blew it off.

Costume Calamity was a well written episode. Overall it was a good introduction episode for Matt, who I am very curious about. I also loved Paige's personal gain issue. One thing that I am finding very strange, is how I am still finding Pheobe to be my favorite in all the episode. She has never been my favorite in Charmed, but here she is. I don't know how Piper's pregnancy will play out, but hopefully it doesn't mess things up for the rest of the season. I think the only major thing that bugged me from the episode was how quick it felt. There was not major obstacle for the girls. If anything I think everything was resolved way to fast. Still, the writing was extremely good.

[Drama]

I'll let you two have your fun. I enjoy your words. All I know is that I really need to reread all the eps. Maybe I can see what you mean about Paige.

Brightside, glad you're enjoying the series. Phoebe being your favorite. I know, isn't it nice to have her likeable?!

Hmm..CC seems too "quick"? Hmm..like I said, I need to reread them. But, that episode was more of a showing things. I guess it's not really supposed to conclude certain things. Maybe that's why it seems to "quick". Check out more episodes and maybe you'll understand what I mean...I hope.

[Brightside]

I do understand what you mean. 4.05 was the episode that would make way to the rest of the season, or at least some major topics. I dunno, it just all felt like it was short. I felt like Demetrius should have been more of a threat before vanquished, and maybe Lilly Munster could have had a full on transformation. Like I said before, I do think that the episode was well written.

I hate that I am so far behind. I am so tempted to read all the discussion above, but I don't want to be spoiled.

[jh7058622]

I agree with you about Phoebe being more understandable and less 'me-centric' I loved Phoebe seasons 1-2 but then they tried to make her a successful buisness woman way to fast and I never liked her with Cole allthough I like The Cole character I felt he served his purpose after season 3 and they should have vanquished him in the season finale because he asked Phoebe to do it is all I'm saying.

[Brightside]

I liked Phoebe as an advice columnist. I hated the workaholic angle, but they job actually suited her very well. I think their biggest mistake with Cole was brining him back after Phoebe finally vanquished him in Long Live the Queen. He went crazy after words and the producers sure did a good job of making the fans hate him.

[Deleted]

Since Drama said she was just going to sit back and let us at it, I'm going to keep at it, since you haven't convinced me yet!

For the record I don't think Paige is dull or unneccessary. Although I do have to admit that there weren't a lot of chances in CRRS4 for her personality to really shine through in between all the hustle of just trying to get the Po4 setup, Matt issues, Source, ect, with Paige's main plot being the triangle with Glennry. CRRS5 we do have some more plans for her characters development that can hopefully establish her true character a little more.

No, there isn't, but if you count up all the lines, you'll see that Paige probably has twice as many scenes and twice as many lines as any of the other sisters! She started and ended SO many of the episodes, especially the earlier ones, even when the episode should've been about one of the other sisters, so it should've ended with that other sister. It was truly Charmed; Reality Reset STARRING ROSE McGOWAN as PAIGE MATTHEWS, and truly her picture should be the one in front and larger than the other three combined. So that should've given her more than enough time to have a chance to show off her quirky, funny, curious, independent, personality--the personality that convinced me that she grew up as an only child and should've been the one to be the true leader of the Charmed Ones rather than Piper, as she did in the original fourth season of Charmed, which is what made me like her. But she didn't. She was just dull. And way too powerful. (you didn't address that) If you have to keep her, PLEASE take that power away and let Prue be the only sister with TK! If anything, since you seem determined to not let Piper keep hers, let Paige develop a power similar to Piper's, except "whitelighter-ized". (not explosion--Paige's should only be passive, since she's a half-whitelighter. If the sisters lose that power, I won't complain.)

And without Paige, you could've done more with the other plotlines that WERE original and very interesting and lots of fun rather than spending all that time on their reaction towards a sister they should've never had and wouldn't have if Shannen hadn't quit. I liked the bit about Phoebe feeling usurped as the baby. And I liked the one with Victor's reaction. I did--very well written and those should've been part of the original Season Four and if Prue had died like she did in the original, it would've been perfect. But Prue didn't die in yours. Neither did Phoebe. Neither did Piper. No need for Paige. Just an extra. Like Billie and Christy who SOOO should not have been part of the last season.

Because I'll bet if you throw those two episodes (or redo them, since the one celebrating Patty's death was so beautiful, but you could've done that without Paige and Victor's reaction) throw Paige out and all of her scenes out, and you could've had had more time for Matt & Prue, more time for the Phoenix, more time for Piper getting pregnant, losing the baby and then getting pregnant again, more time for Phoebe and her job with the psychiatrist, more time for Leo taking care of his other charges and Piper's reaction towards that, more time for Cole trying to duck the bounty hunters and becoming a lawyer again, even more time with the Source and the Seer, setting her up as the new Source, which I think should be a lot of fun! That was MORE than enough to make a fantastic season and they were all rushed just because you took the time for unnecessary Paige. who would NOT have been part of the show if both Shannen and Alyssa were! (And I'd love to see the outtake that shows someone taking those two and knocking their heads together so they'd get along!)

So fire Rose, do another reality reset and show us CHARMED: REALITY RESET starring Shannen Doherty, Holly Marie Combs, and Alyssa Milano, as Season Four should've been if Shannen and Alyssa could've gotten along! Then you truly would be righting the wrongs.

Back to you!